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WH and I went out to dinner and I told him about my therapy session with my new IFS therapist. The session was intense and brought some stuff up for me about early life/childhood. Anyway one of the things I'm trying to work through is accepting affection and love. It makes sense after betrayal this would be an issue but it's been an issue for many years in our relationship so I want to get a better idea of what is what.

Anyway, I discussed with him how I imagine and want to be affectionate with him but then when we are in person I have a wall that comes up and I physically feel a pull away. I know this is hard to hear, I said it very gently, and also it's why I'm going to therapy to make sense of it and see if I can work through it. He did a great job listening, a huge improvement. About 6 months to a year ago he gave me free roam to read and look through whatever so the next day I peeked in his journal (it's been many months) and the last line he wrote, I took my wedding ring off. My guess is he feels hurt and that if we are not intimate we are not acting like a married couple. I don't wear my ring and haven't for years because menopause made my fingers fat

Fast forward a few days and I asked him where is your ring? He says, "Oh I must have taken it off for something and I forgot to put it back on."

I know I need to talk to him but thoughts?

You're probably over thinking this.

Or perhaps he just isn't your cup of tea? Nothing is wrong about admitting this, if it's been the truth all along.

If your IC can help you sort out your truth about how you truly feel trying to bond with a low executive functioning guy, I think it will be helpful more than looking to him for answers. The answer is within you.

This is more proof of his avoidance. I know you know that.

So for us, no lies are tolerable. That’s our agreement and that’s how we want it.

Part of why you have trouble being close and affectionate with him is lack of emotional safety. And as we discussed in your last post, as long as he is avoidant there is no emotional safety going to form for you.

I think he needs to understand this concept at least on the level of showing his own vulnerability by being honest instead of being afraid of losing you would actually bridge the connection instead of destroying it. As long as he is not being honest and himself, you can’t gain any traction towards the type of reconciliation that you both hope for - by not sharing it keeps you remaining separate.

Why do you feel he wasn’t honest? Is it not to rock the boat because he is afraid to lose you? Or do you feel it’s hard to offer him emotional safety in those moments because of how much he has already disappointed you and he feels that? Either way it goes back to the same intention- he wants things to go smoothly, I think you need to paint a picture for him about what smoothly would look like and feel like to you and maybe have him tell you the same. See if you can create more of a shared vision together.

HO, your wisdom and advice leave me in awe. Great advice.

@leafields

HO, your wisdom and advice leave me in awe. Great advice.

Agree 100%

@superesse

If your IC can help you sort out your truth about how you truly feel trying to bond with a low executive functioning guy, I think it will be helpful more than looking to him for answers. The answer is within you.

This is a good thought. I'm going to bring this up to my new therapist.

@hikingout great point on avoidance and I agree...

Why do you feel he wasn’t honest? Is it not to rock the boat because he is afraid to lose you? Or do you feel it’s hard to offer him emotional safety in those moments because of how much he has already disappointed you and he feels that?

Maybe he wasn't honest because it gets him in what he perceives as "trouble" or things don't feel smooth for him. So yes to the rock the boat question. He doesn't seem to have the skills (or maybe the ability) to speak in feelings and so when he speaks I have to be the one responsible for hearing the true message of what's below his hurtful comments.

So for example in the past, after listening he would have replied with something more passive-aggressive/immature. "I guess we aren't married in that way and I need to get used to taking care of my own needs" "Don't you get tired of this therapy stuff" "Not sure most men would put up with sex only once a month" "maybe this is a sign it's not meant to be" etc.

I used to go back and forth with him on this and it was our pursuer/distancer pattern. I have stopped doing that over the last 5+ years and we just haven't been connected because we haven't developed a healthy way to connect. So now he either listens and stays quiet and doesn't open up OR he "opens up" has an immature tirade that causes more hurt. I guess after I share it would likely always need to be me asking, "What are your thoughts and feelings" and then when he starts a tirade of hurtful comments I will have to be the one that calls him out on his insecurity or deeper feelings.

I think this is the dance we have done for decades and after years and years, it's caused burnout and a loss of connection. It always comes back to me accepting it or not.

I hear you on that.

You have probably said- but do you guys do marriage counseling? It seems like there would be some process in which you can both make the other feel more emotionally safe and find a better understanding of one another.

If it were me I would have us both sit down and write down what we like about the relationship and what we would like to improve. And then negotiate.

Unfortunately, as the higher functioning person, you will have to accept the idea of leading. Though I think there is one of those in most marriages, though I suspect in more equally yoked marriages that role does change back and forth more than it does for you (and honestly for me in my marriage too)

I think perhaps utilizing written communication at some points may be helpful because it would give him time to think about what he is saying instead of getting flustered and giving you a brain dump. It seems like maybe you guys might have done that though.

My husband doesn’t know how to express emotions either. He often doesn’t know why he is sad or down and sometimes he doesn’t want to share his complaints/observations because earlier in our marriage it would upset me and I would spin on that for a while. I have had to learn to react differently, which has helped. I find sometimes writing out or saying what I feel about something, giving him time to think and write something back or come talk after a day or two has helped. My husband doesn’t have the issues yours does with executive functioning, and he isn’t as easily flustered. So I don’t get the raw stuff you do, though I suspect there to be similar sentiments at times. But he is silent usually and that’s always been off putting to me. When I tell him how I am feeling the reaction is either impatience/shutting me down or silence. If I prod him to speak he still declines saying he doesn’t know what to say. He often perceives the health of our relationship on the quality/quantity of our sex life. If that is good, he calls our relationship strong. I don’t get it but it’s a common measurement for some people.

So, I understand the frustration. But the problems we speak on and issues in our relationship are far less complex or loaded now and I have learned over time how to communicate in a way he can receive it. I also don’t let him shut me down, I say "you are getting impatient/frustrated and you are not making me feel safe in telling you how I feel" and while that added frustration in the beginning, it’s actually over time made him aware of his demeanor and he does it far less. Usually he will either soften or we will agree to discuss it later at a less emotionally charged time.

I guess what I am saying is some of this is always going to be there, so yes it does take some level of acceptance. But it often takes practice and experimentation and a lot of patience from the more emotionally intelligent one to get it to a level that you are having to accept less things. I actually think some of this is normal in any marriage but due to the added stress of his level of function, his infidelity, you are carrying some very heavy burdens with nothing balancing it out to make those burdens more worth it.

I would look more at it like negotiating. "I hear you want more sex, so do I. I would love to have a better connection in that area. For that to happen, I need to feel emotional safety, and that means you being honest about how you feel so that I can trust you more. It means being able in improve our communication and honesty and learning to connect."

I recommend you read "rising strong" by brene brown together. Do it a chapter at a time and discuss it. It can really help both people look at what blocks connection and what makes it stronger. It would give you guys a common language/understanding for these kinds of conversations and maybe help express that negotiation in a way you can be on the same page.

Honestly, I don’t know if this relationship can ever work. You are so tired from carrying it and your husbands ability to help is hindered, so I just continue to give you advice based on what I think you want and are working toward. But it goes without saying - it’s also okay to wind it down, let it go, and move on.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:07 PM, Wednesday, January 8th]

Hikingout, Wow. I was drinking in your last sentences above as if they were a cup of ice water in the desert sun. Meant for me exactly, too!

Nobody knows what it is really like to live with a person who has a disorder and cannot grasp a message or learn new ways to look through the lens of their own perceptions - which are heavily colored by a dysfunctional start in life. Whether a brain injury is acquired or developed from poor nurturing, it isn't the spouse's job to hang in and try to fix the other person. That is a lesson 24 years of M like lessthinking's has taught me! (People with children with disorders are a different situation.)

@superesse I Love the ice water in the desert reference...feelings are mutual!

@hikingout I am ordering Rising Strong now because it's been on my to-read list for a while now. Even just for myself.

Honestly, I don’t know if this relationship can ever work. You are so tired from carrying it and your husbands ability to help is hindered, so I just continue to give you advice based on what I think you want and are working toward. But it goes without saying - it’s also okay to wind it down, let it go, and move on.

Thank you for this too. Your words and insight have helped a lot and I'm forever grateful for the support.