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I told my father. It wasn't something I had any desire to do, and it also wasn't something my BH asked me to do. The moment arrived where Dad needed to know so that my BH could move forward in his healing, and I went over and faced the music unasked. That's what remorse looks like.

A few months after we separated, my ex-wife told our son what she had done. He was about 10yo at the time. We had a talked about it for a bit. He understood, as well as he could.

IMO they need the to be told the truth and it needs to come from their mom WITH you next to her in case she tries to sugarcoat the truth or alter it to protect herself. And if she leaves anything out, you fill in the gaps. The kids need to know their father isn't a monster.

I had an event in my journey that was qualitatively similar to this, where I uncovered that my wife had hid something major from me that involved my daughter (her POSOM had been DM’ing our 15 yo daughter). She failed to disclose this to me, and even more she destroyed the evidence and failed to render help to my daughter when it was clear that communication was inappropriate. It resulted in our first separation. It remains one of the biggest things that fuels disdain of her in me. She chose herself over her child.

I would not down play this. She allowed misinformation to linger that benefitted her and harmed you and the children. This is a BFD (big deal), in my very strong opinion.

Your wifes seemingly overwhelming fear of loosing her parents love seems to be a major driving force behind some of her actions. I don't think that you can ever truly reconcile if she can't resolve that, because a lot of the things that she does will come from this fear instead of genuine desire of change or from love and care for you. She will also continue the pattern of not treating you as her priority and managing / containing you. There is also the risk that she will turn against you again to undermine your credibility, especially if she decides that she doesn't want to be with you. A hostage is not a good spouse.

[This message edited by Itiswhatitis000 at 10:57 AM, Friday, July 31st]

As far as the Father-in-law:

If she had been telling her family since 2009 that you were borderline abusive, and then there seemingly (to them) was some sort of volatile event that led to you being arrested and her going to the hospital for a panic attack, I would think my daughter is the victim. And while he should not have made your kids feel like they had to choose sides I can see how one might be concerned that what the kids are witnessing is their mother being abused and want them to understand that it’s not okay and is the fault of an abuser.

Your wife needs to clear the air here and tell them everything. I can see there has been injustice but I am not sure that with what her oarents have been given that it makes them awful people for how they handled it. They are operating in her narratives.

What reason did she give them for the incident?

In reality— it does sound like your kids were confused by being asked to take sides. They know you in your day to day lives and are not likely to hinge their opinion of you based on this outlier of an event. I doubt they see you as a monster. I still think your wife should explain it with you present and you be able to say your thoughts too.

I am confused a bit as I have digested this—did you and your wife talk to them at the time? What did you tell them?
Sorry if I am missing stuff and not putting this together correctly.

[This message edited by hikingout at 1:36 PM, Friday, July 31st]

@hikingout

What reason did she give them for the incident?

We sat with them two days after they returned home and told them that Mom and Dad were having issues that we are trying to sort out, this does not change that we both love them. There will be times that we are going to have conflict but we will keep it away from them, and it does not change how we both feel. That it is not their fault and they will never have to pick sides.

I am confused a bit as I have digested this—did you and your wife talk to them at the time? What did you tell them?

Sorry if I am missing stuff and not putting this together correctly.

I know I should have done more, but I did not want to hurt them, or bring them into adult conflict any more than they already were. I was struggling just to hang on and keep making lunches, suppers, clean, and get them to gymnastics and swim. I know I have failed them hence why I am unsure if we should have the conversation now.

If she had been telling her family since 2009 that you were borderline abusive, and then there seemingly (to them) was some sort of volatile event that led to you being arrested and her going to the hospital for a panic attack, I would think my daughter is the victim. And while he should not have made your kids feel like they had to choose sides I can see how one might be concerned that what the kids are witnessing is their mother being abused and want them to understand that it’s not okay and is the fault of an abuser.

Knowing what I know now this makes at least a little logical sense, but with a caveat. They chose to do this without talking to me nor WW about the cause of this rupture. They told an 11 year old (12 now) and a 12 year old ( 13 now birthday four days after DDay) things that they should never tell a child. Especially with NO parent present. Now they know she has been cheating our whole relationship, and they are still telling WW it was at least 50% my fault she cheated via texts. We have talked to our eldest's therapist, and yes he knows I'm not a monster, they were put in a position that no child should be. I no reality should a child ever be told they have to pick "sides" when it comes to parents. Even with what WW has told them, they have seen me provide love and support for their daughter and grandchildren for almost two decades. I know they are very avoidant and the type that will protect their image at all cost. Having it known their daughter is at fault is unacceptable, it must be the evil outsider. They want her to buy a house and have them live there with her.... saying this while we try to make this work.

We have decided to sit the two oldest down on Sunday and have this talk with them, I do not want them to look down on their mother and keep this as separated from the adultery as possible but we will clear up the grandparent factor with them. She is going to take the lead and I will fill in blanks and back her up.

[This message edited by Gemmy at 2:30 PM, Friday, July 31st]

Thanks for explaining all the context. I feel like what you said to address it with them then was not insufficient for a 9 or 11 year old in my opinion. Are they still showing effects of it? Or do you feel like the page has turned for them?

The grandfather definitely overstepped regardless of the context, I was just trying to get a better read on the situation. I can understand his outrage at the time not knowing the whole story but he should have protected them.

So her parents do know about the affair now?

She told me today that if I tell her parents the whole truth or if she admits everything that they will not love her anymore.

I fully agree with HO. She must absolutely reveal the entire horrific truth of her evil choices, spanning so many years, to her parents. Even if they (likely) go the blood-thicker-than-water route. That’s on them. If she’s not willing to do this, I don’t see any way forward for you with her, as much as you may want it. I see this more as whether she’s willing to do even the absolute lowest level work of revealing the truth of her actions. And it’s critically necessary she does. Preferably with you present. If she’s not willing, again showing irrefutable proof she cares more for her own image than her own family, I’m at a complete loss how you move forward with that.

She honestly believes love is transactional, this is something I have come to see clearly in the past few months.

You can’t fix this. I believe you know that. I hope you think long and hard whether you want anything more than a co-parenting relationship with a woman like this.

...they will never have to pick sides.

They are going to pick sides. There's nothing you can do about that aside from love them, be honest and vulnerable with them.

Every sibling has their own parents. Their relationships with each of you are as unique as they are. If you could hear my sister and me describe our parents you might be as amazed as we are at how differently we saw and related to them.

If you divorce, they're going to pick sides. They might not agree with one another.

While I completely understand that you want to protect them from the damage caused by your wife's infidelities and her issues, there's only so much you can do. They will try to understand it all. Maybe not right away, but years from now, they will ask.

As parents, it's our job to raise, support and prepare them for life on their own. A huge part of that is teaching and imparting wisdom.

Her parents just know she cheated twice, once at the beginning, and once at the end. She has only told her sister the entire story, and I am skeptical if she truly told the whole truth.

Not in any way over reacting I'm amazed how constrained You've been.

Has You're WW built a defensive wall of people who were fed her propaganda making You the bad guy and isolating You?

Have WW write out a complete time line subject to polygraph so you don't hit anymore landmines like this

What Your WW and OM did was child abuse, don't extend the lies of the affair to your kids who may blame themselves btw.

I think You need to sit at a table with WW and her parents and tell it like it is

long-overdue "why" letter, not really a "disclosure letter

This kind of slipped by with the gravity of the rest of the events, but this is also a big deal. If she chose to skip disclosing the facts that you want, that is not transparency. Of course her "whys" are important, but it is not a substitute for the "what".

I'm with InkHulk that the fact that you got a "why letter" in lieu of the timeline that you have been requested and were promised for ages is huge deal. This was your primary requirement for considering Reconciliation and she's made it abundantly clear this point that you will never get it.

Based on that, I think you can safely assume that whatever you think may have happened in your wildest imagination is probably true; after all, she's giving you nothing to refute that.

Everytime I start to calm and see straight, I get thrown more and more. How much can my shoulders really hold.

This is not accidental. The more that your wife can throw you off balance, then the more hopeless you will feel, and the more "stuck" you will continue to be.

Once you commit to a decision--and I think you're starting to recognize what that decision needs to be--then you'll be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel, instead of constantly waiting for the next piano to be dropped on your head.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 5:22 PM, Friday, July 31st]

Gemmy,

My heart breaks for you... I am so sorry that the pain keeps coming. You are not overreacting and the record has to be set straight with the kids. They, like you, need honesty. How traumatic for all of you!

Take your time to think and process. You will know when you're ready.

My thoughts are that you get a good family counselor. Explain the situation - and yes, your wife should be present at that first meeting with this counselor.

I would then ask the counselor to help develop a plan for telling the kids in a controlled environment, where they can ask any questions, and where your wife can be held to account in front of the kids - because this is the kind of thing that can damage their perception over time, and you want this discussion to have a strong and professional impact.

Hi Gemmy,

I am so utterly sorry your kids were involved and that you only found out about that.

I don’t have the time to go through all the comments right now, so apologies if someone has already said that (probably!).

I genuinely think your FIL should be cut out from the family or at the very least you should all go (especially kids) extremely low contact with him (which if I recall correctly is already happening?)

I would rectify the situation with the oldest children. I am not sure I would mention "secrets and lies" just yet (yes to mum and dad working through their challenges). But my view here may be limited as my children are much younger so by mentioning "secrets" we would just confuse them / scare them.

Your wife may need to take a hard stand with her father.

[This message edited by LonelyGuilty at 12:56 PM, Saturday, August 1st]