SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So brief synopsis- married now 25 years. WH cheated off random hook ups on Craigslist 12 years ago, beginning when I was pregnant with our second child (now age 14)- They were BDSM hook ups and there were 3 different women, prolly a total of 8 times. I caught him and the usual trickle truth ensued. He never wrote a formal timeline but did answer all of my questions. He lacks insight.

I did a post nupt, but let him out of it because they aren’t generally enforceable and I’m not an asshole. He’s been a stay at home for our children for 16 years now. I’m a physician and he was moderately supportive of my career.

Over the past two years, things with our 16 year old were awful- he dropped out of high school and had some pretty terrible outbursts (think ER admit for psych, punching holes in walls, etc.).

I have stabilized our 16 year old. He had struggles woth borderline personality and had gotten much better with high level intense interventions. And when that shit show got better, I realized that we rug swept and never really fixed anything. So here I am.

WH had a counselor, several actually, that he has seen over the past few years. One of them went as far as to tell my WH to just give me what I wanted, like what I was asking for. Which frankly isn’t much. I’m an emotional cactus. Just don’t scorch the earth with me, and I’m usually ok and will survive.

All along, I’ve just wanted validation and dates and vacations (which I pay for). He has a tendency to promise something and then forget or back out, blaming his ADHD. Sex has been shitty, I haven’t had an orgasm with him in the same room for over eight years. The last time I did, he said he "Gave me some sugar in my coffee last night, baby." Or some bullshit like that that just made me feel gross and unloved.

We went to a marriage counselor and the marriage counselor commented that he has a high level of functioning, but he falls off with shitty communication (or NO communication) and he "forgets" things he plans to do with me that don’t make sense (implying it’s not forgetting). The MC also said that there is a reason he keeps forgetting stuff with me, and it doesn’t make sense because he functions at all high level other times. And the MC gave me a pointed stare. I then interjected, "Yes, this is why I think he doesn’t want to be with me." And MC said "hmmm maybe."

Over the past few months, it has hit me that he never says anything validating to me, that I always self soothe, and that he hasn’t been there for me really ever. He decimated my relationship with my mother (she is crazy, but he let her escalate him, resulting in him kicking her out of our house one time she was staying with us to visit). He almost fucked it up with my 16 year old, purposefully escalating things with him, as well.

I made him take a DBT class with my teenager because they both suck at validation and prolly struggle with some Borderline issues. My WH was molested by his sister as a kid.

So, it hit me that we rugswept. And now- I’ve been holding his feet to the fire. I think I want a divorce. I’m pretty sure this isn’t recoverable.

The guilt is awful, I simultaneously miss him and am so fucking glad this might be over soon.

Last night I asked him to say something validating to me. He couldn’t. I said I’m done. And now I’m here.

This sucks. I want this pain to go away, so I’m posting here. There is nothing to do for me, I just know I need to end it. He’s been "trying to fix things" but his effort sucks and his insight sucks even worse.

I fantasize about him dying because it would make it easier. And yet I’m still hurting and feeling guilty. I know in my heart he doesn’t love me, or if he does, it’s so fucking dysfunctional.

It just hurts. I feel so guilty like I should have tried harder. I should have sucked it up more than I did. I should have been less needy.

I swear I’m never dating anyone ever again. I’m done.

This sucks.

Thanks for listening. I’m posting here so I don’t call him crying. I know it’s best to divorce it just hurts. And I feel like a failure.

[This message edited by 3yrsout at 3:18 AM, Friday, August 1st]

This is what he texted me just now.

last night my actions and words made you unsafe and I am truly sorry for that. It makes perfect sense that you felt unsafe. I need to be thoughtful in difficult moments and I reacted in a way that was rushed, not thoughtful and above all not validating. Just retelling this makes me think of the frustration you must’ve felt .I want you to know that from this day forward I am committed to handling challenges in a calmer and especially more thoughtful way.

I also did a poor job talking about 16 yr old Kid with you last night. After some thought about what you asked - I realized how I would have handled 16 yr old Kid better. I would have had talked to him with a lot more caution and reserve. I would NOT have tried to influence what he was doing, but be more thoughtful and empathetic of what he chose and better yet have the goal of removing myself from the wake up situation completely. It might not have changed outcome but could have been easier on the relationship .

Not validating you was a terrible decision. I think I’ll remember that blown opportunity for the rest of my life. I can only imagine how hurt you must have been. Completely unacceptable. I know better and I can do better . It won’t happen

Again- I think my terrible action will be the last time that I will do that.

All this being said, I respect that you feel a divorce is necessary. I called several attorneys, but got the same "no response" that you were telling me about. Maybe I’ll get a return call soon . I fully respect the depth of the pain that is behind that decision. I felt the weight when I called the .If that is the decision you choose, I will honor it. At the same time, I would like you to know that I would like to stay married. I feel we could build a marriage of trust, service and validation ( from me). I am going to try to take an opportunity to prove through CONSISTENT action that we can have a marriage where you can feel secure, understood, validated and deeply wanted. As well as autonomy to engage personal fulfilling interests. Opposite of what I have been, I’m trying to be thoughtful in a difficult situation.

[This message edited by 3yrsout at 3:21 AM, Friday, August 1st]

This is what he promises. Over and over again. And I get sucked in. Then he flakes on a date or some other small easy promise he makes me for no reason.

And then I feel sad and want to divorce again.

Over and over and over.

And the promises he makes are stupid little things. Like he promised to take me out to dinner, then forgets he said it and makes other stupid plans. And then says he never forgot.

He is utterly unable to say anything validating to me under pressure. He accused me last night of setting him up because I asked him what he would change if he could go back in time with our 16 year old. I asked what he would do differently.

Then I asked how he would validate me differently. And he froze and said nothing. Just silence. And that was fucking heart breaking. Just silence.

I am unable to believe that he cares.

I feel like I’m a crazy bitch when I talk to him. But I just want this over.

[This message edited by 3yrsout at 3:32 AM, Friday, August 1st]

Oh my, we live similar lives. The daydreams of natural death are real and you are not alone in that!

I do not understand the total lack of insight these supposedly "intelligent" men can not get. It is all a crock, and I know I am being played yet again, and at 37 years married to this coward, I am no longer able to stomach the thought of spending another year wasting my life and waiting around for things that will obviously never happen.

Your WH and mine must have studied at the same center for dysfunctional and manipulative partners who hide behind labels of emotional immaturity and childhood trauma. I believe this is the KEY that may help decode the scripts:

Trickle truth with 20% honesty = Full Disclosure (So, he will avoid any suggestion that perhaps he may not have been 100% honest...? Hmmm?)

ChatGPT/AI will draft all texts and emails that require response without passive-aggressive undertones. Somewhere there lies a hard copy with the real truth of his intentions and coverups.

Boundaries... Well, those are MADE to be broken, don't ya know! "I nodded my head in agreement just so you would be quiet and let me nap! I will do what I want!"

Kids, when they are not perfectly behaved = YOUR kids

If you do not bring up his past serial cheating for a period of 120 days - You void all right to discuss past topic and relationship begins from a clean slate. (Note to self: set calendar reminder to complain to him monthly)

Sex = "Well, I am done. You good?"

When asked to say ANYTHING KIND to you = He will morph into a "Deer-in-headlights" and feign mini seizure with memory loss "What just happened?..."

(Sorry, I could go on. I am just bitter and right there with you.)

The pain of being invalidated for SO LONG is very real and you have every right to feel all that you are feeling. We have accepted settling for so little, for so long, that even the tiniest of scraps seems like he just Super-Sized the meal plan (Man, am I FULL! Whew! That little hint of a smile you gave me just blew me away!)

Honestly, we can't look them in the eye because they will see the contempt we feel towards them. They lie through their teeth and actually BELIEVE their own lies. It makes me sick. The ability to blame-shift is remarkable. Oh, and the ability to play the victim is perfected... I am talking "standing ovation!" I hold back my applause and ENCORE requests frequently! Unfortunately, yesterday I DID laugh immediately after he told me that he was "working on his childhood trauma to better challenge himself to ONE DAY be able to do the FULL Disclosure I have been asking for." I suggested, "Perhaps you would like to CHALLANGE yourself by discussing a topic related to this shit-show, or NOT.. you know, depending on your fragility and all!" (I have been waiting for 3 years and I am done waiting for HIM to grow up. Yet, it hurts so much to file for divorce and BE that failure after 37 years. I know exactly what you are feeling right now. Are they that THICK? That ignorant? Mu WH cheated since the day we were married and never had ANY intention of honoring his vows. His parents taught him that if you were not happy, you just found someone better, cheated, and dumped the one that sucked. He did this over, and over, and over, etc... When it was disclosed to me by a friend back in 1995, it was ONE PA that he had with a good friend (DBL betrayal) and it was in 2009 that HE needed to lift the weight off his back and he told me about ALL the others (Whew, did HE feel so much lighter and brighter after that confession... and he left to his AP who ultimately kicked him out when he bought the "Family Sized" pack of toilet paper vs the single ladies 4-pack. (I laughed SO hard at that one!) Anyway, I just wanted you to know you are not alone in your long-time coming to the realization that we are better off GONE.

Hey, now I evern feel better having vented, so THANK YOU!

I am so sorry that you are in this shit-show and I wish someone would produce the magic wand (or winning lottery ticket) that will make this all go away. We did not deserve the garbage they dished out and served us. We ARE worthy of SO much more! Knowing we NEED to end it and actually filing that paperwork are so far apart. The love-hate feeling is deep and occasionally switches to contempt and disgust. When this is over, and I DO know it will be over soon for me, I know the pain will still remain and I will still need to DO that hard work to recover. So will you. But, I know that once we DO GET TO THAT OTHER SIDE, we will rock this world! Hang in there! Buy a bunch of 2nd hand glassware (I mean several boxes from Goodwill!) and smash them all against a brick wall (yeah, yeah, yeah... wear the goggles and bring the broom and dust pan, LOL!) It is SO satisfying to hear the breaking glass! It feels good! Go ahead and SMASH!!!

12- not a big glass breaker here. I lived in that angry place for the past twelve years to survive, and I think I’m now just pretty fucking depressed.

I’m holding myself accountable, though. He may not love me enough to do better. But I love me enough to do better for myself.

So one account at a time, one parenting plan at a time. And I can eat this whale. I’ve done harder.

Believing in my future self. She will be better.

It is so easy to slide back into feeling like we should give them another chance. That's what compassionate and empathetic people do, right? But hurting someone, apologizing, promising to do better, and then failing to follow through is the unfortunate pattern of every abuser, from the obvious (physical beating) to the subtle (contempt, verbal insults), and infidelity falls somewhere in between.

I've had to remind myself and others that we have to focus on their "bad days," not all the "good days" in between - because some people never have a "bad day" by cheating. I'm still in the process of extricating myself, and I can feel my will slipping on those good days, too. It's not easy after spending decades in the same pattern.

Sympathies to you both, 3yrsout and 12many24give.

Ugh. Thanks for this. It’s true. I just hate this. All of it.

Is there something about today's text different from previous unkept promises?

So ... are you saying the following?

'I've been angry for 12 years, and now I'm seeing through my anger and realizing I want to D.'

What are you saying, if I'm reading your posts wrong? If I read your posts right, what you say makes a lot of sense.

This thread is so painful to read, as my SAWH, who was CSA victim too and probably is on the NPD/autism spectrum, acts much the same as your WH and NOBODY EVER SEES IT or calls him on it! It is Graduate-Level Gaslighting. And I have always held out hope for a better future for him and for myself, but the little dismissive behaviors have always sent me the message that he hasn't "gotten" how to be in a relationship with anybody but himself. This suggests infant-age emotional damage and thus it's not going to be easy for someone like that to flip a switch and change. So it's no wonder we are where we are!

Remember this: most all mentally ill people are not completely gone, parts of their brain work normally. It's the damaged part of their personality that keep on hurting those who attempt to love them. And believe me, there are a LOT of mentally ill people going about their lives wrecking the lives of their "loved ones."

I bet you operated on the same assumption I did, that his brain is all inside his skull, so he must be able to use his brain in a better way if he says he wants to, right? And that's why you have always believed what he says about fixing his issues. But what if he is truly incapable of doing that?

You mention BPD and that is a real diagnosis. Have you ever heard of a book titled "I Hate You! Don't Leave Me!"? It's about the Borderline Personality Disordered. I am sorry about the pain he has caused you, the children and himself, but it may be time to save yourself. If he manages to rewire his brain, maybe you could give him a second chance. Trouble is, these types are so expert at wearing different personalities on different days...but you could heal and grow in the meantime. Best wishes.

Yes, that’s what I’m saying, S. 12 years, and I’m out.

Superesse- I don’t think he has the skills to rewire his brain. You also have to have insight, and he has little.

I wasted so many years. I did so many things hoping he would come around. Ugh.