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Bigger,

I've been meaning to ask about this:

If not – if the real issue is the truth... I have other suggestions for you on how to get that goal.

Has her story changed in any way since she agreed to the poly?

I've been meaning to ask about this:

If not – if the real issue is the truth... I have other suggestions for you on how to get that goal.

Here’s what Bigger is saying. Imagine talking to a crazy person. That person swears a UFO landed in their back yard and they had an amazing time partying with aliens. If they took a polygraph the examiner would report "no deception", meaning this person actually believes they partied with martians. The test confirms honesty. However, this partying never took place (this person is nuts, remember). The test does not "reveal objective truth". Again, it only confirms the person believes what they are saying.

Make sense?

Put a voice activated recorder in her car (VAR), They might be communicating with each other to get their stories straight.

Has her story changed in any way since she agreed to the poly?

I had lunch with a buddy the other day who is one of the couple of people I've talked to about this. He basically said "if you want to stay married, I think you're pushing this too hard." He kind of got to me so I walked the poly thing back a little bit, really just to get through the holidays and enjoy our time with family. The more I think about it though, I'm not walking it back. I realize this was a mistake on my part. I'm going to sit her down again tonight. Not mention the poly until next week, but I am absolutely going to do it. So long answer, no her story hasn't really changed because it hasn't had to.

Put a voice activated recorder in her car (VAR), They might be communicating with each other to get their stories straight.

Might be a little late for that. If they've coordinated, it's already happened. Also, I"ve been checking her detailed usage (VZW) daily and his number hasn't come up in the last three months. Not to say that crafty bastard isn't/hasn't used a google voice number or something.

Even if they collude it will come out in the poly. At the end of the day it's up to you want you want to believe.

He basically said "if you want to stay married, I think you're pushing this too hard."

I don't. She freaked out when you asked for a poly and initially refused to take one. If she's innocent, she'd be furious at the accusation and making her own poly appointment to prove she's being truthful.

I don't. She freaked out when you asked for a poly and initially refused to take one. If she's innocent, she'd be furious at the accusation and making her own poly appointment to prove she's being truthful.

I agree. He got to me in a weak moment. I think his wife may have gotten to him.

Dakota

If your aim is to get the truth and give her hope of reconciliation no matter what the truth might be then go to my last post. I outline the strategy for how to get the truth.
Only remember – hearing what you already suspect can hurt...

Keep in mind the key fact that poly’s indicate honesty more than truth...

The way the test will probably go is the operator will give you 3-5 questions and ask your wife one more. The "bonus" question is usually a rewording of one of the other questions.
The questions need to be detailed and factual. You are not likely to get to as "did you love him" (too emotional and relative) but will definitely get "have you had sex (as we defined sex earlier on) with OM or any other man than your husband since xx.xx.xx?

What you do is you create YOUR list of questions. You can ask if she loved him or whatever. Only you present these questions to your wife and ask that she answers each and every one of them before you go to the poly. Take your time, discuss, cross and counter the answers. She tells you she had sex with him... as hard as it might be then appreciate the truth. Not suggesting you go buy her roses, but remember – you are seeking the TRUTH. She doesn’t know that she will only be asked 2-3 of the questions you have. She doesn’t know the questions will be reworded to cover the key issues.

For example (and sorry for being graphic): Did you have sex with OM? She might say no, because maybe they didn’t have "sex" but she only gave him a hand-job, or she doesn’t think receiving or giving oral is "sex". So what you might ask are questions like:
Did you have sex with OM at this period of time?
Did you kiss OM at...
Did you make out with OM...
If so, did you touch under clothes?
Did you touch his penis?
Did he touch your breasts?
Did he touch your pubic-ar
Was there any sexual gratification?
Was it oral?
Full penetration?
What about after we married?
Has there been anyone else other than me since we met?
(if she admits to OM then reword): Has there been anyone else other than OM since we met?
Have you had any contact other than with me since XX.XX.XX

And so on and so on...
The operator will spend some time with her going over the process and defining terms. Like if she has admitted to making out but denies sex he will define what "make out" is and what "sex" is. If she confesses to oral, he will define what sex is and exclude oral.
When he asks the important sex question he might say something like (assuming she denied all sex)
In the period xx.xx.xx to xx.xx.xx did you have sex as we defined it earlier with OM?

He then might use that question to ask basically the same thing as a last question:
Other than your husband have you had sex (as we defined it previously) with any other man since xx.xx.xx.

Friend – You need to go to the test having decided to believe it. If she passes... you should accept and appreciate she’s being honest. Can she fake it? Well... its highly unlikely. If you find new and strange prescriptions (anxiety drugs can flatten responses) or she walks with a limp (a pebble in her shoe can create responses that allegedly throw off the result), but the operators are trained to notice these things.
At the same time – if she fails – you need to accept that she doesn’t trust you with the truth.

Thanks man. I'll get back to everyone when I have time to post. Running kids to practice, basically every evening and work has been crazy in a good way.

Op, I have been discussing a polygraph with my wife. If you follow through i hope you post your experience. If not knowing why you decided not to would be informative as well.

Hey all,

Quick little update here. We made it through the Holiday and actually had a nice time. She has since met with some friends, somewhat mutual of mine, but all ladies. They all seem to think I’m insane and should just get over this as it was so long ago and also due to my affair. I obviously disagree, this was a brutal double betrayal that lasted a long, long time.

She continues to swear that she has told me everything. Which I still find her story to be impossible to believe. With that, I’m putting the Poly back on the table and hope to have one scheduled in the next two weeks. Will let you all know how that conversation goes and what her reaction will be this time. I have told her again that I want to get over this, but I just do not believe her.

If you haven't already had the discussion with her you might try to approach it by inviting her to lay a foundation for trust.

You might start by getting a written time line.

All the best as you address this issue.

It's been 17ish years. I think a timeline will be tough. At least that is her excuse.

She tells you that you already have the truth.
I’m guessing a key-question for you is if she and your friend ever got intimate.
If she answers that one truthfully – as she stated she already has – then I guess other questions are less important.

A poly gives a great indicator of honesty.
Its not as if the operator straps her in and then starts asking 20 questions. Before the actual test he will talk to your wife about the process, the definitions of terms like "have sex" and so on, and generally get an evaluation of her state-of-mind. He will have gone through what you want and her answers. From that he will have something like 2-3 key questions. That’s it. He might word the questions to reflect best her previous answers. Chances are one question will be asked in two ways:
During the period from xx.xx.xx have you had sex with NameOfFriend (as we defined sex earlier on)?
Since your marriage to Dakota on xx.xx.xx have you had sex with another man?

If your wife were to pass these two questions... key questions... you can feel more confident in her having shared the truth on other less important issues.
At the same time – if she fails...

WRT the timeline, my W & I organize life in different ways. Time/timing/when are primary for me. The single most obvious aspect of an even t is where it happened in time. My W doesn't see life the way I do. I can't imagine how she experiences life without time, but I've stopped trying to show her how important time is.

We did the TL together. She'd mention an event. I'd ask the who/what/when/where/why/how questions, and she'd incorporate the Q & A into the TL. The discussion would bring up more events, and we'd figure out the timing relationships between events.

That got me the TL, and it also built bonds as we worked together to build it. It really help about a year after we did it. I realized something had happened, and it seemed like TT to me. W was upset with me, because she said she had told me about what I thought was a new problem. I checked the TL, and there it was. No doubt about it. It's just that I saw the event in a different light in 2012 than I did in 2011.

Frankly, I think working with one's WS to create the TL is the best way to go about it because, if the partners organize life differently, working together is likely to be the only way to create a TL that is meaningful to both partners.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:08 PM, Thursday, January 2nd]

At the same time – if she fails...

Exactly. I'm 97% sure I'd file at that point. I've asked so many times for her to just be completely honest. I can get over this. But the lies.....

Have you told your wife the polygraph is back on yet? How did she respond?

I know the time line is a hard thing after all the time gone by. I like sisoon's idea. Here is my thinking: Will a time line be perfect - no, will it be complete - no, will she be able to remember the parts that matter most - YES, will it be worth the effort - most likely.

Hope things are going well.

Edit: you say you'd file is she fails; what would you do if she confesses before the poly?

[This message edited by Lostinmarriage at 6:23 PM, Friday, January 3rd]

Exactly. I'm 97% sure I'd file at that point. I've asked so many times for her to just be completely honest. I can get over this. But the lies.....

The false positive rate for polygraphs (she is actually honest but fails the test anyway) hovers around 17-18%.

So if she is honest, know that you’ll still be falsely divorcing her with about a 17-18% chance.

Brother you deserve to feel peace and safety in your marriage.

She repeatedly put herself in comprising situation and then gaslight you about it.

No wonder alarm bells are going off in your heart.

She chose this uncertainty and doubt for you and your marriage.

She de-prioritized you on the relationship scale, and only tried to clean it up because marriage and family were a goal she had.

That makes your relationship quite transactional.

No wonder you don't have peace or feel respected.