First, life is risky. To live as fully as possible, one MUST take risks, since even staying at home risks accidents, sometimes fatal. We are always vulnerable to the unexpected. We can prepare to protect ourselves against many vulnerabilities - just not all of them.
I agree that life is inherently risky. However, I would never advocate for a victim of abuse to continue engaging with the source of that abuse. Removing oneself from active harm is the very definition of protecting oneself against known vulnerabilities.
but that becomes evident over time, usually not a lot of time in the context of most lives
Where is your evidence for this? There are countless accounts of people reporting that cheating appeared to stop, only to discover 5, 10, or 15 years later that the unfaithful partner simply became better at hiding it, or that the behaviour recurred.
The nuances of any given situation must be weighed carefully, and in some portion of cases, the risk can be worth the reward - and I don’t just mean in the outcome of satisfaction of marriage.
There are countless situations where children can be fully raised during this time, people go back to school and gain more stability. Perhaps the BS grew during that time and is far better prepared to deal with the fallout later. Most good reconciliations encompass the BS knowing they can be fine on their own, they will not continue to tolerate infidelity in the future, and there is something they have decided there is enough satisfying reasons to remain in the marriage even if it falls apart later. I
don’t think the bleak "lost a decade of my life" is always true. It’s hollowed out version of a lived experience, with no real gauge of what was also gained. Are there going to be regrets if there is a re-occurrence, yes. Are sometimes those regrets balanced with what outcomes were achieved in that time, also yes.
I also think we are more encouraging a highly mitigated risk, the ask for the ws is steep in that context.
I know DRS and others want to get out of pain quickly, but they can't
How are you defining 'quickly'? I do not recall ever stating this. I have previously argued that people who leave unfaithful spouses tend to heal faster. Removing yourself from the source of trauma generally accelerates recovery. I can quote a host of adjacent psychological literature that backs this claim up. It is never instant, and it always requires work; I processed my pain and put in an immense amount of effort to heal over time. I often think that your perception of me - not being 'healed' is blinded via our philosophical differences. Do you accept that its possible to be both simultaneously healed whilst advocating separation from a cheater? Or to be healed one one need to share your philosophy?
Now, nearly nine years removed from it, I have been with a new partner for over six years. I do not experience triggers. I see many posts - and if you were being honest you will too - citing many years into reconciliation a betrayed spouse will still experience month ruining triggers. I do not have such triggers, I see this in part because I have separated from the source of trauma. My partner doesn't wear a specific outfit or walk past a certain location only for my day/week/month to be ruined by memories of what was done to me. So yes, I believe separation is a faster and more effective route to long-term recovery, but none of it is 'quick'.
I have seen some people who have remained married in this situation, whether I would consider them reconciled is questionable. The reality is people post when they are struggling more than when they are happy. We don’t keep reconciled couples on here long term because they don’t need us anymore. I am going to say there simply isn’t enough data to imply what you are saying is true.
If you ask people here who have claimed they are reconciled how many month ruining triggers they now have I don’t think you would get a high count there. I can’t remember the last time my husband triggered enough to even ruin a whole day, it’s been years. And, I have asked. are also nine years out, I am going to say the last time was probably longer than 3 years ago. Similar to your timeline. And he too has had a wonderful spouse for most of that time.
My experience has been that relationship needs shift over time - the implicit (and maybe explicit) contract shifts. That leads inevitably to shifts in paramountcy of principles.
You believe the core principle of fidelity shifts over time? I strongly disagree. If you don't mean this, please provide an example of something you would define as a core principle that has shifted over time and why you feel this was a good thing?
maybe not because they want more or different sex, which is rarely seen on SI
Sexually motivated infidelity is one of the most commonly cited reasons for cheating, regardless of its specific prevalence on any single forum.
Actually, by my own reading of statistical information men more often cheat for sexually motivated reasons, women for emotional reasons. But I am not sure the conditions that this occurred is as simple as that for either situation. I think when you look along gender lines, it’s more the type of validation they are seeking, but it’s mostly validation. Men more often tend to be largely validated by sex. And while I think women also see sex as validating, they tend to want to be seen and known.
"I wanted to see if I still had it" is often what we see a new ws saying in both cases regardless of gender.
But to get to Sisoons point, I won’t speak for him but fidelity is one aspect of marriage people value. There are lots of things to value and in many cases there has been significant investment made that one doesn’t want to untangle if fidelity can be restored.
For some BS, fidelity may weigh the same as those other things they value and they are interested in keeping those things while trying to fix that aspect.
I don’t think that its they value fidelity less over time, it’s that they value more than one paramount thing over time. But every bs I have known to reconcile still values and requires fidelity.
It reveals that they are someone incapable of upholding core principles. I don't mind if my partner reneges on failing to save as much as we'd planned for a festival. Or skips the gym because she's had a tough day at work. Core principles should be unwavering. Upon discovering someone could not uphold a base requirement, it is entirely fair to assert you never truly knew your partner, as you operated under the reasonable assumption that they shared your foundational values. For those of us to whom fidelity is vital, that revelation changes everything.
I don’t think people who reconcile are wavering on the concept or importance of fidelity. I think in most every case I have seen, they require fidelity moving forward and they are willing to see if the ws can or will comply with that moving forward. It’s not a weightless burden the ws carries to prove that intention.
This is the section I take serious issue with. Do you truly view someone who leaves due to infidelity as 'destroying a family'? This is classic victim-blaming. Sounds very much like: 'She should not have dressed provocatively, she was asking for it to happen' or 'well they shouldn't have had that much to drink, they put themselves in that situation'
When a relationship is built on mutual fidelity—often with explicit agreements that cheating is a dealbreaker—the person who breaks the deal is the one who destroys the family. I actually think the majority of waywards on this forum would agree with that. It was their choice. Attempting to guilt betrayed spouses into staying by claiming they are the ones destroying the family is manipulative, and I firmly believe you should retract that statement.
That isn’t what Sissoon is saying, that’s what you are perceiving. He isn’t saying it’s the bs’s responsibility to keep the family together. I believe he is saying when a bs weighs their options and possibilities this could be their desire and the decision should be based on desire and possibility rather than justice because it doesn’t usually fully exist in either outcome.He feels happy he was able to keep his marriage, that's a normal way to feel for a reconciled person. I know my gratitude of that is sky high as well.
I tend to think there is never justice when someone cheats, but there is a similar amount of justice regardless of the outcome. In fact, in some cases the justice may be higher in divorce because the ws loses the bs, and potentially loses financially. However, in many cases we see here the BS loses greatly in the divorce – divided time with kids, financially, etc. In other cases the justice may be greater in a reconciliation because the ws earns their way back through great penance, and the bs didn’t have to give up the things they would lose in a divorce. But, when it comes to infidelity, I don’t think anyone really wins anything, regardless of the marital outcome.
[This message edited by hikingout at 5:50 PM, Tuesday, September 15th]
